Cruiser

Author Topic: Stereo upgrades for dummies  (Read 4554 times)

mikl

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« on: 07-Jul-14, 10:50 »
So my motivation is up since doing my Pioneer 6x9 speaker upgrade and dynamat in the front doors. Thanks to OJ and Sylox for the encouragement ( LINK HERE to Sylox's thread.........http://www.fjcc.com.au/f73/what-6x9-speakers-have-you-installed-3459/index6.html ......)

I have no knowledge (or want or need to know) when it comes to sound other than I know I like to hear it and that is becoming harder as the industrial deafness is really kicking in (seriously) hence I don't want to go top end and NO AMP just improve what is there either by replacement or tuning.
I have searched the gazillion threads on this in the Blue Room and just found the info contradictory and confusing and the yanks can't do anything without a huge amp it seems.

So lazy way out, I just want to know what people have done in the parameters of what is there, head unit the 6 speakers and the crappy (this seems to be the only thing everyone agrees on when searching stereo posts) exciters. Remember simple is the operative word no massive comp set ups.

Michael
      

OJ Clay

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #1 on: 07-Jul-14, 18:32 »
You mention your Industrial Deafness Michael, so i would be looking for a set of bass shakers if i was you... It is amazing how much less you will turn it up when you can feel it... ( Old saying applies here..." If you can't feel it, why turn it on ? ")....The bass shakers normally use a built in type amp, and just produce the low end thump you would get from a sub or 2.. Mount a set of those under the seats and it will bring a new enjoyment to it all for sure.. I know Aura doa  lot of the shakers now days, but Alpine used to but unsure if they still do or not.. They do not produce any sound , just the vibration of bass... Need to mount them solid though as with any speaker to avoid the steel,  tinny rattles..

We used to have some hell fun with the shakers at home with the game set ups as well.. They will surprise a lot of people and have them looking for where the hell you hid the non existent sub...

Personally, i feel the rear most speaker location is just too far away to be really effective, so i have stuck with improving the front.. I have now also disconnected the dash speakers and the so called exciters in ours and it made it sound a lot better with mainly the Alpines in the doors.. Focus is now directed at the Alpines, and not the crap treble coming from the rest of the so called speakers...

You could also remount the 6x9's with a slight upward angle... Not trying to aim them at the side you are sitting on though, you would aim the left hand speaker toward the driver, and vise verse for the right.. This might lift the sound stage a little for you without adding anything in really apart from a little creative molding and sanding of some craftwood...
      

uu11wa

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #2 on: 07-Jul-14, 18:43 »
6x9 Alpines in the doors, 4" Alpines in the dash and an inline AMP (small one that doesn't req own power etc etc

See:Alpine Electronics of Australia

It seems to go well enough now.

Totally agree not to bother with the rears.
      

OJ Clay

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #3 on: 07-Jul-14, 18:55 »
Quote from: uu11wa;57754
6x9 Alpines in the doors, 4" Alpines in the dash and an inline AMP (small one that doesn't req own power etc etc

See:Alpine Electronics of Australia

It seems to go well enough now.

Totally agree not to bother with the rears.

Now, i have asked this before here... How are your 4" mounted in the dash ?
      

Sylox

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #4 on: 07-Jul-14, 19:01 »
From what I have read a lot of the US guys have put speakers into the panel behind the suicide door in the arm rest recess..

This will be my next move and Ill just add the Pioneer TSD 6" 2ways in there also with some MDF and some more Sound deadening. I like a bit of sound coming from behind.

Then the headunit is gone!


« Last Edit: 07-Jul-14, 19:06 by Sylox »
      

uu11wa

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #5 on: 07-Jul-14, 19:07 »
Sorry if you asked it of me? I didn't see it!

You can't get all 4 screws to line up obviously as they are bigger than the ones coming out.

This is the only pic I took and it was during the install once I was a happy bunny that they actually fit in the hole.

I got 2 screws in them and used sticky double sided foam to prevent vibration etc. It doesn't look pro but they go well and with the cover over the top you would never know (except i just told you)

You could get all excited and do some cutting etc but I couldn't see the point.

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OJ Clay

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #6 on: 07-Jul-14, 19:34 »
Quote from: uu11wa;57760
Sorry if you asked it of me? I didn't see it!

You can't get all 4 screws to line up obviously as they are bigger than the ones coming out.

This is the only pic I took and it was during the install once I was a happy bunny that they actually fit in the hole.

I got 2 screws in them and used sticky double sided foam to prevent vibration etc. It doesn't look pro but they go well and with the cover over the top you would never know (except i just told you)

You could get all excited and do some cutting etc but I couldn't see the point.


You're not going to like this then....

That's how i have seen a lot of the dash units mounted, and the rear most speakers as well.. And it is a complete waste of time and money to mount a speaker that way..You might as well leave it on top of the dash , it would sound just as good as you have not separated the front and rear signals and they are just happily cancelling each other out for free.. I have a set of Alpine 4"s here too( exact same units ) , but am not going to bother mounting them in the dash unless i remold the whole area to mount them correctly.. You might think they are working fine, but i will lay the ownership papers of my J on the line that they are not coming even remotely close to operating as they should...At very best they are now an expensive tweeter... Basically the same as what is in there from stock, although the stock speaker is mounted properly..

Anyone can carry out the experiment themselves by dropping a speaker out of the door, listening to it and then reinserting it to the door pocket... I know which 1 i like the sound of more..Speakers are simply not designed to work without the front and rear being separated... Mounting a speaker is not as simple as just screwing it into a hole and hoping for the best.. The area you mount the speaker to must be seen, and modified if needed to be an effective baffle between front and rear signals of the speaker..
      

uu11wa

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #7 on: 07-Jul-14, 19:46 »
Gotta be better to have a big expensive tweeter in there than just disconnecting the factory crap ones (like yours)

Oh, and they are much better mounted in the dash than in a box (like yours)

Probably don't like that either huh?

I understand the logic of what you have said and do understand that if they were in a sealed unit they would perform to a far higher standard. I have spent lots in the past on fancy stereo's in cars but that wasn't the intention at all in the FJ.

I also can attest to the fact that it's rather loud, very clear, shakes my mirrors very well and I'm happy with my setup.

 :Love:
      

OJ Clay

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #8 on: 07-Jul-14, 20:21 »
Quote from: uu11wa;57763
Gotta be better to have a big expensive tweeter in there than just disconnecting the factory crap ones (like yours)

Oh, and they are much better mounted in the dash than in a box (like yours)

Probably don't like that either huh?

I understand the logic of what you have said and do understand that if they were in a sealed unit they would perform to a far higher standard. I have spent lots in the past on fancy stereo's in cars but that wasn't the intention at all in the FJ.

I also can attest to the fact that it's rather loud, very clear, shakes my mirrors very well and I'm happy with my setup.

 :Love:

Like what ? I am not the 1 that has done a half assed job at installing anything of mine... And no, mine are still better being in the box rather then being mounted like yours...

Don't get defensive, you posted a classic example of what not to do... And if you have spent like you said, you would know that yourself, just except it, fix it , or move on.. Nothing changes the way a speaker is designed...
      

uu11wa

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #9 on: 07-Jul-14, 20:42 »
Starting a post with "you're not going to like this" was NEVER going to get a defensive reply now was it?
      

OJ Clay

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #10 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:09 »
Quote from: uu11wa;57774
Starting a post with "you're not going to like this" was NEVER going to get a defensive reply now was it?

Nah, that was just me knowing how you would reply... :Idea:
      

mikl

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #11 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:20 »
Now boys you are sounding like me and Alloy  :Haha:, be nice.

So OJ did you physically disconnect or just turn off in the head unit (I think you can do this but not 100%)
I am pretty well deaf in the left ear, can't hear my Samsung ringing in my back pocket half the time works great for me, call filtering! Oh and it is fantastic at home but don't tell Ruth.... shhhhh.
Funny you said in the other thread that you are not happy with the speaker mounts, I have been thinking of redoing them in craftwood too so will definitely angle them up a bit while I am at it, Sikkaflex them to the door? easy job, chippie by trade and yes understand the aiming.
On the dynamat should I have put a full cover over the inside skin (not the inside of the outer skin) to seal the speaker in there?

What about these?



UU is the inline amp something that say a new headunit would make mute (pardon the pun) or would it add to a new HU's power? Maybe in the future would rather throw some dough at a new HU (when Sylox finds us another bargain).

Sy, not a bad idea

Thanks all
Michael
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FJWally

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #12 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:26 »
Get a room you two!!
 :Sshhh:
      

FJWally

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #13 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:29 »
they are cute Mick - where did you find them?

Quote from: mikl;57792
Now boys you are sounding like me and Alloy  :Haha:, be nice.

So OJ did you physically disconnect or just turn off in the head unit (I think you can do this but not 100%)
I am pretty well deaf in the left ear, can't hear my Samsung ringing in my back pocket half the time works great for me, call filtering! Oh and it is fantastic at home but don't tell Ruth.... shhhhh.
Funny you said in the other thread that you are not happy with the speaker mounts, I have been thinking of redoing them in craftwood too so will definitely angle them up a bit while I am at it, Sikkaflex them to the door? easy job, chippie by trade and yes understand the aiming.
On the dynamat should I have put a full cover over the inside skin (not the inside of the outer skin) to seal the speaker in there?

What about these?



UU is the inline amp something that say a new headunit would make mute (pardon the pun) or would it add to a new HU's power? Maybe in the future would rather throw some dough at a new HU (when Sylox finds us another bargain).

Sy, not a bad idea

Thanks all
Michael
      

retlaw

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #14 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:35 »
Quote from: mikl;57792
I am pretty well deaf in the left ear, can't hear my Samsung ringing in my back pocket half the time works great for me, call filtering! Oh and it is fantastic at home but don't tell Ruth.... shhhhh.

Michael

So that's why you don't answer me when i ask the hard questions in the passenger seat  :Dispondant:

Lucky you clarified this at the start and asked for a simple solution  :Thinking:
      

OJ Clay

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #15 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:37 »
Bit of siki on the mount would not go astray at all.. In fact, i have a tube here ready to go for my new mounts when i get around to them...I do think i will be doing something with a slight angle myself..  Dynamat or anything like that as far as i am concerned is better if applied to all surfaces... If you ever see inside any top end show car or hot rod there is not 1 single square centimeter that is not covered with sound deadening... You are adding mass to the panel or area, which our J's are seriously lacking..I am looking into the Resomat myself as i want to do as much of the door skin as i can, and the skin between the door trim and door, plus any other bits i can get to.. The Resomat is the same stuff they use in the Queens coaches, so i figure if it is good enough for her, then it will be good enough for my J, and a lot cheaper then the brand name Dynamat..

The sealing of the front and back of the speaker will be done for you with the door skins,and the door trim just cant have open areas around the speaker edge itself or the signals get cancelled out and you will loose all your bass response....Also keep in mind the majority of 6x9's on the market are designed to be rear shelf mounted, making the use of the available boot space as its box.. I still think that is why a door speaker upgrade works so well in our J's, just have a look at the size of the internal door area, they are bloody huge and lend themselves to the 6x9 well..

Now the other a pillar pods you posted i have looked at before myself.. Only trouble i always seem to have with really high mounted speakers is keeping the higher frequencies tame enough so they are not cutting your head off.. High frequencies are very directive, and sometimes the harshest and hardest wave to get right.. This is why i disconnected the stock dash units as they were producing nothing in the mid level, and mostly high.. You are set up very similarly to my Brother, his left ear is almost completely cactus too, and he also hates the higher frequencies as that is all he seems to be able to pick up...

I turned the rear speakers off the easy way, just be adjusting through the head unit..
      

uu11wa

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #16 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:38 »
I used the factory head unit with the speakers before adding the amp and it did make a big difference to the quality from the factory unit.

I doubt that it would increase an after markets ability at all, would be just the same or worse depending on the brand/quality.

It did provide ability to change the output levels etc and get more from the speakers when fitted to the factory unit which is another advantage to just more power.

I'm happy with my setup and it still works heaps better in my car than on the shelf.
      

mikl

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #17 on: 07-Jul-14, 21:59 »
Fiberglass A Pillar by Golf Echo with Focal 165 KRX3 3 way component speakers - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum

Blue room mate, where all your dreams can come true! Just didn't know if they would be worth it (sound wise) they would also cut vision down a bit.
Michael
      

Maurice

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #18 on: 07-Jul-14, 22:00 »
Listen guys, you can go on and on about how the and that is better, how the angle of each speaker matters a coaxial verses a 2 way setup, at the end of the day its all gonna pretty much sound the same when u stream internet radio, mp3s or any other compressed audio file. To get acoustics in a car right it costs a lot more re money then you think and deadening the doors isn't even the start.
How do I know? I've spent more than an FJ on this previously, a had 5.1 channel decoders before most had them at home.

Two way up front, a good set of coaxial for the back and go out spend a couple hundred on a processor teamed with the correct number of channeling on your amps and you will be more than happy.
Audiophiles don't listen to music in their cars anyway
      

mikl

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #19 on: 07-Jul-14, 22:11 »
No Maurice I do realise how much hence the original request to keep it sane. It would be totally wasted on me and really as you know I would rather spend it on go better bits (or an anvil lol).
You guys all have (are) given me fantastic advice and so unusual for a forum it's easy to understand.

So ok what does a processor do? because like you said it will be mostly iphone crap I will be listening to.
Keep it coming boys.
Michael
      

Maurice

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #20 on: 07-Jul-14, 22:56 »
Michael, a processor will do all the frequency allocation to every separate audio driver. You get Tue right sound and can also alter timing to give u an ideal audio experience. A decent processor will set u back around $200-$300
      

mikl

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #21 on: 07-Jul-14, 23:15 »
So does it make the itunes crap sound original, restored?
Michael
      

GazLaz

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #22 on: 07-Jul-14, 23:19 »
If your music is in flac and the bluetooth is a higher bitrate it should sound very good...its is the best you will get from a phone, put your music on usb maybe but not sure what format the hu can handle.
      

JD

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #23 on: 08-Jul-14, 09:44 »
So what are peoples recommendations on replacement head units with nav?

I want to get something where i can upgrade the maps myself and that gives better sound (along with speakers, maybe a small amp).
      

FJWally

Stereo upgrades for dummies
« Reply #24 on: 08-Jul-14, 09:50 »
use your iPad mini as your music store Mick - sound is a lot cleaner than bluetooth as it keeps more of the original file - there is usually a USB cable for most head units or a plug in slot.

works well with the steering wheel controls also but you will need to buy a patch to connect them - for my pioneer that was about 140$ from memory but that was from Auto-barn so I'm sure you could source it cheaper online spending which head unit you go for



Quote from: mikl;57821
So does it make the itunes crap sound original, restored?
Michael